Simple two-way roll system

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Simple two-way roll system

Postby Paul Dee » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:44 pm

Hello all! Newbie here.

I know you like pictures, so let's kick off by seeing if one appears:


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Bingo! That's a big one.

I thought some might be interested in this configuration for getting a Minor up. It's very cheap :). I'll have to go outside and measure the height of the logs, because the body will go up to 90 degrees  if it rests safely on tyres. This height is important so the sill clears the ground. I can lift the car up from horizontal by myself - the car is stripped but for the doors, boot lid, bonnet and glass.

I do it in two stages. First (the harder one) it goes up a bit and then sits on a tall log under the crossmember end. Then it's an easy lift the rest of the way. I'll measure the height of this log as well.

Same at the back:


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The 4x2 extension triangles are just to stop the logs tipping over as the lift begins, since there would be a degree of horizontal force.

The logs have to be good, of course. Something on the hard side, like oak. I fashioned a channel for the bumper brackets to sit in. An option is to form a metal plate (1.5mm?), with a corresponding channel to fit the channel in the log. Then the bumper bracket would sit on the metal, and I reckon there'd be even less chance of the log splitting.

If the log heights are just right, the body can be almost touching the ground when it's at 90 degrees. Or one could go for more clearance, and insert planks under the sills when the car is up. That way, the car cannot fall vertically.

I like this roll-up method, because I can be welding under the floor, quickly drop it down (crossmember end on to to the taller log, not all the way down) to check or do something, and flip it back up.

I've been using this method for a year now, with no problems. Ther's loads of scope for upgrading the method - welding up four supports, for example. I remember seeing something like this, but not the wooden version.


Disclaimer:

If you try this roll method, you're on your own with it. Please seriously consider safety and your personal welfare at all times. Drop the car down immediately on finishing a work session, and lift it back up when you start the next.

Check ALL elements of the system before starting a lift!

Check regularly for woodworm, and the general condition of the logs. Better to add the metal plate on top of each log, probably. Obviously, the body areas around the bumper brackets must be able to handle the load - strengthen first as necessary.

If you feel you need help with the lift, get a helper!!!!
Paul Dee
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Postby Paul Dee » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:40 pm

Measurements tomorrow - rains stops play . :cry:
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Postby TeHoro » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:15 am

Cool idea. Would pay to make sure the bumper mounts are solid before the first tilt.  :shock:
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Postby Paul Dee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:14 am

(The measurements are at the end of this post).


TeHoro:52616 wrote:Cool idea. Would pay to make sure the bumper mounts are solid before the first tilt.  :shock:



Extremely important - hence the sentence in the "disclaimer" about it.


Having said that, when I did my first tilt, I hadn't noticed/forgotten that the front bumper mount was not welded to the flitch extension and front crossmember - only welded to the front of the domed part of the inner wing  :shock: . The mount was just sticking out into the air.

Result? Well, it was strongly welded to the dome so it bent only a little, with the car dropping down less than an inch. Although this was a gross error on my part, I ended up pleased that it had happened, because it demonstrated just how strong these mounts are when used as flipping points. I tack welded some metal to join the front of the mount to the body with the car up, because I didn't want to risk a mishap by moving it as it was. When the car was back down, I did the proper job on the mount after lining it up again.


Measurements:


The height of each of the four main supports needs to be 42cm, and the diameter as wide as possible for the best stability.

The log I use in the first stage of the lift has a height of 55cm, and the diameter can be less than that of the other four.

Even though I am totally confident with this roll-up method, I still put in place as many extra supports as I can. The taller first-phase log never moves - I work around it, using it as a little table for tools.

Always bear in mind that freak earthquakes can happen anywhere!!!! The trick would be to scarper quick at the first sign of a rumble. But what if one were grinding at the time and didn't notice?


Well, nothing in life can be guaranteed 100 per cent safe. The risks shoot up as soon as you start doing anything on a car - cut finger, hammer falling on shin etc etc.


The individual is wholly responsible for their own welfare.
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Postby Paul Dee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:55 am

After not much thought, I've decided that the metal plates on top of the logs should be considered ESSENTIAL. I will be making them up before my next work session.

I started thinking about the logs drying out and becoming progressively more prone to a split.
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Postby Linear.audio » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:39 pm

Thanks for the entertaining photos. Love the idea- designs like this that are slightly to the left of normal thought are a welcome reminder that there is more than one way to squash a mechanic :lol: Goes with BMC's garden swing-cum-engine hoist on my list of ingenious devices!
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Postby Paul Dee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:30 pm

Linear.audio:52624 wrote:Thanks for the entertaining photos. Love the idea- designs like this that are slightly to the left of normal thought are a welcome reminder that there is more than one way to squash a mechanic :lol: Goes with BMC's garden swing-cum-engine hoist on my list of ingenious devices!



It works, though, primitive as it looks. I VERY frequently kick the logs and push the body with all my might, and nothing gives. The only risk to me as I see it at the moment is a splitting log. The metal plates I mentioned previously will eliminate this possibility.

Further stability could be provided by attaching tight ropes between the top of the uppermost B post and, for example, trees, a building,
telegraph pole or dead elephant, on both sides. Then if a log did split, with the body sitting on planks wedged under the sill near the ground, it wouldn't be able to topple over more than a few inches at most.


I was inspired to post after seeing this picture in another recent thread here:


Image


It occurred to me that my method of getting the car up probably looked just as freaky as this, but I concluded that one would have to "be there" and check things out to be able to form a valid opinion.

So, the best advice is that people should by a "professional" roll-up system?

But -

Have the welds been x-rayed? How brittle is the steel? I suppose something with some kind of attestation would set one back quite a few quid.


I go for trusting myself, and taking responsibility for that. Faced with a hefty bill, the Heath Robinson cobbler-upper will usually look for and find a cheaper alternative.


Worth a discussion this subject, and maybe some pictures of other roll-up "cobbles"?

People are doing this kind of thing all over the world, of that I'm certain. Perhaps a discussion could result in fewer mishaps globally.
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Postby Big Al » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:48 pm

Here's some for your collection:

Image

Image
Image
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Postby Paul Dee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:44 pm

Image

I'm in no rush - I can wait till he grows up to do the sill bottom repair  :D!


My suspicions are confirmed! Myriads of roll-up systems knockin' around.
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Postby Paul Dee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:50 pm

.


This one looks secure, but doesn't allow for a quick flip up from the other side. Potential woodworm issues, too.


Image
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Postby Linear.audio » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:52 pm

Paul, I'm right with you! I'm convinced you will have a much healthier respect for your personal safety if you construct something like you have, than if you blindly follow the instructions with your expensive, built to a cheap price off the shelf angle iron jobby! There has been comment on one of our forums(!) about getting rid of all H&S directives and letting natural selection back into the arena, but thats something else again..... :wink:
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Postby Paul Dee » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:08 pm

Linear.audio:52686 wrote:Paul, I'm right with you! I'm convinced you will have a much healthier respect for your personal safety if you construct something like you have, than if you blindly follow the instructions with your expensive, built to a cheap price off the shelf angle iron jobby! There has been comment on one of our forums(!) about getting rid of all H&S directives and letting natural selection back into the arena, but thats something else again..... :wink:



Top post!


Re H&S:

Pah! We pay taxes so people can be "educated" to figure things out, then we don't allow them to actually do anything if there's a possibility of them breaking a nail!

It should be the law that everybody must get extremely dirty everyday.

As George Bernard Shaw said:


"Never trust anyone who is clean ALL the time".



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Postby Big Al » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:46 pm

Right my first attempt at getting ready to following your instructions didn't quite work...

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My second attempt nearly worked but I have a few access problems...

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I thought I was going too fast so I opted for the slower approach. I planted a seed under my car and waited.

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Next time I'll do some more accurate measurements to line up the supports...  :lol:  :lol:  :wink:
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Postby minormadman » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:53 pm

Fantastic Big Al :lol:  :lol:  :lol: as usual.

Paul, keep on going mate, as long as your system works, is well tried and tested and gets the job done safely-then thats all that counts.

Hope we hear more from the "Captains Log" :lol:

Regards

Cliff
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Postby TeHoro » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:13 am

Wood, pooh, I can roll a tank with my shoulders

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